Naming notes #77

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1. dsyme commented on Nov 5, 2022

   

   dsyme

   on Nov 5, 2022

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   Anyway, I just want to point out that the TaskSeq naming isn't perfect

   Putting aside legacy, the ideal for naming and simplicity purposes would be

   • Make F# Async properly fast by getting it implemented using state machines, supporting tailcalls etc.
   • Call this library AsyncSeq and get it to support tailcalls (obviously deprecating the old AsyncSeq)

   Then we'd be back to the nicest position that there is just async { .. } and asyncSeq { ... } and both support implicit cancellation token passing.

   That makes me wonder if we should already be deprecating/renaming FSharp.Control.AsyncSeq to make room for this. Maybe renaming to FSharp.Control.AsyncSeqSlow or something. Or maybe this library should be even bolder and simply re-implement async as well, leaving us in the nicest spot of all (apart from the really tricky question of tailcalls, which I think needs a language addition to help builders know when in tailcall position).
2. abelbraaksma commented on Nov 6, 2022

   

   abelbraaksma

   on Nov 6, 2022

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   I see your point, but I'm not sold on this. F# Core has two distinct builders, one for task and one for async. The hot- vs cold-started, and resumable vs non-resumable, on top of the current discrepancy on tail-call recursion (async) and non tail-call recursion (task), at least for the foreseeable future allows for distinct use cases.

   People have come to associate Async naming with multi-threading and parallelization, while Task naming is mostly associated with fast, hot-started, non-parallelized, yet asynchronous scenarios.

   If we want to move forward to a single library approach for asynchronous sequences, it's likely that some of the current library functions of AsyncSeq will need to be dropped (I'd have to investigate, but I wouldn't be surprised if some functionality is currently not (easily?) possible with the resumable state machine approach).

   Also, since most F# programmers that I know have typically moved from async builders to task builders "everywhere", it seems to make sense to do the same here. I.e., in a single library approach, the main building block would be TaskSeq, not AsyncSeq, in analogy with F# tasks.

   I realize there's no perfect solution here. I can certainly see a use-case, and definitely until TaskSeq has gotten enough maturity, that AsyncSeq should continue to exist.

   Also, with 250k downloads of the latest version alone, and 1.4M in total, deprecating AsyncSeq is sure going to annoy some people out there...
3. abelbraaksma

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   on Nov 6, 2022
4. abelbraaksma commented on Nov 6, 2022

   

   abelbraaksma

   on Nov 6, 2022

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   people thinking this is about "sequences of tasks". I'm not sure what to do about this.

   PS: yes, I can see this confusion. The reason I started all of this was that in my team people were literally writing code that had List<Task<'T>>, which, when hot-started and with side-effects, is a recipe for disaster.

   This prompted me, among giving some education on task (people really don't easily get hot-start vs delay/cold-start), to create TaskSeq based on your code, to force people using this pattern instead.

   Which reminds me, I should probably remove functions like TaskSeq.ofTaskList, as they allow people to use bad practices (I added them in as one could have a list of cold tasks, but it's too easy to confuse them, unless we expand this lib into a single lib that contains all of IcedTasks as well so we can turn this into a TaskSeq.ofColdTaskList or something, without adding a dependency)...
5. abelbraaksma commented on Nov 6, 2022

   

   abelbraaksma

   on Nov 6, 2022

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   Current F# AsyncSeq

   Noticed something else: AsyncSeq does not implement IAsyncEnumerable<'T> from the BCL. Probably because it simply didn't exist at the time:

   let x = asyncSeq {
       yield 1
   }
   x :> IAsyncEnumerable<_> // not possible

   We could also implement that interface, though it'll be confusing, as the internally used interface is same-named, they only differ in the naming of getting the enumerator: GetAsyncEnumerator(CancellationToken) vs GetEnumerator().

   I know there's AsyncSeq.toAsyncEnum and AsyncSeq.ofAsyncEnum, which were introduced for interoperating, but altogether it furthers my believe that it's probably better to continue on the path of using a different name altogether. Having two AsyncSeqs in the wild that implement different interfaces may just add to the confusion.

   Not saying there isn't any confusion now. But I just think that having the two disparate yet seemingly equal worlds: tasks and asyncs in the F# ecosystem maybe the best of all the bad choices we have ;).
6. fsprojects

   locked and limited conversation to collaborators on Oct 31, 2023
7. abelbraaksma

   converted this issue into a discussion #188 on Oct 31, 2023
8. abelbraaksma

   added this to the v0.1.0 milestone on Mar 18, 2024
9. abelbraaksma

   pinned this issue on Mar 18, 2024
10. abelbraaksma

    self-assigned this

    on Mar 18, 2024